Judi Dench on her
Portrayal of Writer Iris Murdoch
CHARLIE ROSE: Dame Judi
Dench is here.
She is certainly one of the
world's greatest actors. She has played everyone from Queen Victoria to
Lady Macbeth to Sally Bowles. She won an Oscar for Best Supporting
Actress for her performance in Shakespeare in Love. She received two
Oscar nominations for Chocolat and Mrs. Brown. And she has just been
nominated for Best Actress for her portrayal of author Iris Murdoch in
Iris.
[trailer from ``Iris'']
CHARLIE ROSE: I am pleased
to have Dame Judi Dench here for the second time, to talk about this and
many other things.
First of all,
congratulations.
JUDI DENCH, Actor: Thank
you.
CHARLIE ROSE: You were not
surprised.
JUDI DENCH: Yeah, I was
surprised.
CHARLIE ROSE: Were you
really?
JUDI DENCH: Well, I think
it's been-- because of the so-called "intended strike'' in June,
lots of pictures were made very -- very quickly and finished by the end
of June. So there's a lot of people out there.
CHARLIE ROSE: Does this
mean something to you?
JUDI DENCH: Well, it means
that kind of exquisite exhilaration of being nominated.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes?
JUDI DENCH: Until you get
smacked in the face when somebody else goes up.
CHARLIE ROSE: Well, you can
handle that, can't you?
JUDI DENCH: Yes. You bet.
I've done it twice before.
CHARLIE ROSE: You've got
all the experience you need now. So now you can practice winning.
JUDI DENCH: Just -- no,
sitting there and just--
CHARLIE ROSE: And enjoying
it.
JUDI DENCH: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ROSE: You'll be
there, then?
JUDI DENCH: I hope so.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Oh,
that's great. I guess a new building this time, and so--
JUDI DENCH: So I believe.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. [crosstalk]
JUDI DENCH: --something
about elephants on the stairs?
CHARLIE ROSE: Maybe.
JUDI DENCH: I think maybe
so.
CHARLIE ROSE: You've
exhausted my knowledge of the Oscars already. OK, so let's talk
about Iris first. You never met her.
JUDI DENCH: No, I didn't
ever meet her.
CHARLIE ROSE: You're the
only person, as you told me--
JUDI DENCH: In the world--
CHARLIE ROSE: --in all of
the world.
JUDI DENCH: --who never--
though she was a tremendous heroine of mine because I-- when her book, A
Severed Head, was adapted for the stage, I went to see that. Two friends
of mine were in it, and I went to see that. And I was absolutely
fascinated by the story and the writing, and the acting. But then I
started to read her books, and so I was an avid reader of hers.
CHARLIE ROSE: What did you
like about what she wrote?
JUDI DENCH: Well, I mean,
she was a great philosopher.
CHARLIE ROSE: And was great
with words.
JUDI DENCH: And was great
with words, and was like a kind of fishbone writer. You know, you get--
you get onto the main stem of the fish, and you follow it. And then
quite suddenly, she goes off onto a branch, and you have to go right to
the end. And then eventually, she comes back and you think, "Oh,
we're back to the main''-- and then she goes off-- you know, she
examines every kind of-- it's very intricate and-- it's like, you know,
John Fowles's writing--
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: --you know,
boxes within boxes. It's, in a way, the same kind of construction. I
love that.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. And--
and when the idea to play her-- did you have any trepidation because she
is a person of-- of our time?
JUDI DENCH: She is, and
only died very recently.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: And as we've
said, so many people knew her.
CHARLIE ROSE: Any
trepidation about that aspect of it, or does that make it more
challenging and fun?
JUDI DENCH: It does make it
more challenging and it does make it more fun. It also makes it more
frightening because I think if you're an actor, you-- you want-- you
take what there is, and you try and add up to-- or make this-- but
distill as much of this person as you can, which is all right with Queen
Victoria because nobody remembers actually what she was like, but even--
and even less so with Elizabeth I. We all kind of know. But so you can
kind of add things into this recipe. With Iris Murdoch, there was
nothing I could add because I was playing somebody who I'd virtually
come face to face with and whose husband is still alive.
CHARLIE ROSE: But you
didn't want to talk to him.
JUDI DENCH: No, I didn't
even want to meet him.
CHARLIE ROSE: You didn't
want to meet him?
JUDI DENCH: No, I didn't. I
met him at the premier. I didn't want to meet him because I-- I
imagined, really, what I would feel like if somebody was coming-- was
put in front of me who was going to play Michael, and--
CHARLIE ROSE: Your late
husband.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. And I know
that my face wouldn't have been the right arrangement at all. You know,
there would be-- you know, I think you would have tremendous misgivings
about looking at somebody. But meeting him when it was all
finished was a different thing. It was different.
CHARLIE ROSE: So your
reason not to meet him was your sensitivity to him.
JUDI DENCH: I think. And--
CHARLIE ROSE: Not because
it might affect your performance or anything like that.
JUDI DENCH: No, though I'm
sure it would have done. But no, I think that it would have been
painful, probably. I think he and Audi, his wife now, dreaded it being
made, the film. In fact, I know they did because I got a letter. But I
think that it's passed calmly for them. And he said it was like
watching-- he watched, and it was like watching one degree removed.
Which if course, it must be, by the nature of the fact that it's not her
and not him.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: But I was-- I
read an article by Martin Amis, who knew her very, very well indeed.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: And that-- once
I'd read that article, I thought-- I thought, actually, I don't mind
what anybody feels about it because I feel as if I've got over a hurdle,
a huge hurdle, with somebody who actually did know her very well and
recognized in the performance and in the film somebody he knew.
CHARLIE ROSE: What was it
you wanted to capture about her? Other than her.
JUDI DENCH: Nothing other
than her.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: Just I wanted
this-- it to add up to the sum of her. And I hope that anyone who-- who
is not conversant with her books and-- would perhaps now read them
because they-- they are remarkable books. She was also a wonderful
philosopher. And so that's quite odd, when you're an actress, to play
that. But she had-- she had a strangely-- I don't think the film
is about a disease. I don't think it's about Alzheimer's. I think that
the film is about two extraordinary people who happened to find each
other. And as somebody said to me, ``Why on earth didn't he get help
when she was in an advanced state of Alzheimer's?'' But there's a line
in the film where he said ``Nobody would suit us.'' And of course, it's
quite true. They were such extraordinary an unique people, and
they were a matching pair.
CHARLIE ROSE: When did you
shoot this?
JUDI DENCH: I shot it in
April, I think-- [crosstalk]
CHARLIE ROSE: So it'd be
April 2001.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. I started
on The Shipping News with Lass. I did four weeks on that in
Nova Scotia. And then I flew back and the very next day started Iris and
did it in five weeks, and the next day out of that, flew and rejoined
The Shipping News in Newfoundland and finished that off, and then came
back and did The Importance of Being Ernest two days later.
CHARLIE ROSE: All of this
came within-- your husband-- your husband, Michael--
JUDI DENCH: Died in
January.
CHARLIE ROSE: January,
2001.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: So you threw
yourself into work.
JUDI DENCH: I did. I mean,
it was lined up for me because I couldn't-- I couldn't-- I didn't want
to work when he was so ill, so from-- from summer '99 until he died in
2001, we were together. And so had the films not been able to wait, they
would have gone ahead, but they did. They did. They did wait. And so
suddenly, they were all there. And in actual fact, although people said,
you know, that-- quite a lot of people said to me that it was not facing
up to things, I think on the contrary. I think it was exactly what I
should have done.
CHARLIE ROSE: Because?
JUDI DENCH: Because grief
produces adrenaline, and you can use it. And so whyever not use it to a
good purpose? It's not to say you grieve less, but it means that you
don't have an overflow of--
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. But at
this-- this is specially poignant because it's about a great love affair
and a relationship, of which one of the partners is dying.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. But
strangely enough-- I mean, I suppose-- I suppose that some of me was
used up in it, but I didn't feel that it was-- I didn't feel that. But I
think that every emotion that you experience, you use, to some extent.
That's not to say that you're cold about viewing something or looking at
something or observing an emotion in another person. But I think that
our job is to take a kind of quick-shutter picture of something.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: And I don't
think you're aware of it at the time. But nevertheless, that's what you
have to draw on because it's your own reserves.
CHARLIE ROSE: In this case,
because there was everything there with respect to Iris-- there were all
kinds of material, there were all people-- all kinds of people you could
talk to-- you could literally see where they lived.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: You could
think-- you know, smell the place.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did you do
all that?
JUDI DENCH: No. I went and
sat outside their house in Oxford, and--
CHARLIE ROSE: Sat outside
the house?
JUDI DENCH: Yes, I did, in
a car. Between two locations I had to do, I went and just looked at the
house.
CHARLIE ROSE: You just sat
there and thought and felt and--
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: --smelled
and--
JUDI DENCH: And also they
were away, and I thought it was interesting that a window was open and
the car was in the drive, which was also unlocked. That told me
something about them.
CHARLIE ROSE: That they
were-- here's what it would tell me, that they were open and they
weren't sort of--
JUDI DENCH: Careless about
materialistic things.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. A
little callous, right. Careless.
JUDI DENCH: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ROSE: You know? And
not fearful of somebody--
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: No.
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: What else did
you find out about them, in terms of this-- conversations you would have
with friends?
JUDI DENCH: About the
fact-- I watched two videos of her being interviewed, one of which I
didn't think she liked the interviewer, and another--
CHARLIE ROSE: You can tell?
JUDI DENCH: --in which she
patently did like the interviewer. Yes, because her manner was so
strange, so different. And also, she was somebody who had no small talk
at all. I found lots of lines between her and me. I have no small talk
at all.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: I also have an
Anglo-- I had Anglo-Irish parentage. My mother was a Dubliner, and my
father was born in Dorset but lived over there. She was also a
communist, interested in Quakerism, and I am a Quaker. And also, the
most perhaps extraordinary thing of all was that Richard Eyre said to
me, not really apropos of Iris, "Do you know something called The
Lark in the Clear Air?''
I said, "I do.''
I said, "I was taught
that by my mother when I was a little girl.'' And so was she.
And then I read recently
that she also used to sing a song called "Are You Right, Michael,
Are You Right,'' which also I knew. So there were all sorts of kind of
lines of communication that-- that I latched onto.
CHARLIE ROSE: How crucial
was her sexuality to who she was?
JUDI DENCH: I think it
was-- I think it was crucial to her, but not in a way that we perhaps
would interpret it. I mean, I suppose one would call her-- I suppose one
would call her--
CHARLIE ROSE: Bisexual?
JUDI DENCH: Yes, bisexual.
Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: What's the
other word you were looking for?
JUDI DENCH: Free.
CHARLIE ROSE: Free.
JUDI DENCH: Sexual.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: And bisexual.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: But in no way
was that-- she just believed if you love somebody, that it was between
two people and it was-- that was just part of loving somebody and your
expression of love for them. But in no way was it a betrayal to John. No
way at all.
CHARLIE ROSE: He had to
come to realize that.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, and I
think he did. I think that's what he says in his book. But I heard him
interviewed on-- "In the Psychiatrist's Chair'' with Anthony Clare,
and he said that she had affairs and fell in love many times, but not
since they were married, but on the contrary, that it was not an act of
betrayal for her. She just believed in--
CHARLIE ROSE: Freedom.
JUDI DENCH: --and love and
goodness.
CHARLIE ROSE: Expressions
of--
JUDI DENCH: Yeah.
CHARLIE ROSE: --love.
JUDI DENCH: Yeah.
CHARLIE ROSE: Here is you
in Iris.
[excerpt from ``Iris'']
CHARLIE ROSE: Now, while we
were watching that, two, three things happened. First of all, I'm
talking to you, asking about this television program, which I'd never
heard of, called In the Psychiatrist's Chair. What--
JUDI DENCH: With Anthony
Clare.
CHARLIE ROSE: Who is a
psychiatrist?
JUDI DENCH: Yes, who is a
psychiatrist.
CHARLIE ROSE: Because we
hear from a lot of psychiatrists on this program, and that was a
fascinating idea for a television program.
You hear out of your ear
your voice, and you say, "She sounded a lot like my mother.''
Right?
JUDI DENCH: Yes. She was
very aware of her own Irishness, Iris. And I didn't-- I wasn't even
aware that my mother had an Irish brogue at all until the night I went
to boarding school. And I went to boarding school, and I rang home that
night, and I heard this voice say, "York double-4,
double-5.'' I said, "Who's that?'' She said,
"Who's that?'' [crosstalk]
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes. Your
bleeping mother. "What's wrong with you?''
John Bayley said to you--
JUDI DENCH: Yes, he said--
at the premier, he said "charming stammer, you're-- you're-- you're
much more in-- in-- in real life than you are in the film.'' At the end
of the evening, he said, "I feel we've been married for years.''
CHARLIE ROSE: It is a
little bit-- what? I mean, I don't know what the word is that describes
that, to be-- for him-- you know, to be there in your presence and see
the movie and--
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Someone who--
JUDI DENCH: He was charming
and generous.
CHARLIE ROSE: What do you
think of this notion that Kate actually looks like a younger Judi Dench?
JUDI DENCH: Well, because,
you know, I should be out looking at myself-- [crosstalk] I think that
that's brilliant editing and brilliant casting on Richard's--
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: --Richard
Eyre's--
CHARLIE ROSE: Richard Eyre,
yeah.
JUDI DENCH: --part. Yes.
Because I don't think naturally you would say that. I don't think you'd
say that at all, looking at the ...
CHARLIE ROSE: So he has cut
it right.
JUDI DENCH: He's just
edited it brilliantly.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Is he a
good film director?
JUDI DENCH: Oh, he's
terrific. He's terrific.
CHARLIE ROSE: But is there
any difference in directing a film versus directing a--
JUDI DENCH: A play?
CHARLIE ROSE: --a play?
JUDI DENCH: Well, the
process is different.
CHARLIE ROSE: I know it is.
But I mean, the skill is the same or not? I mean, is it--
JUDI DENCH: The skill's the
same.
CHARLIE ROSE: You've seen
him as a theater director.
JUDI DENCH: I have.
CHARLIE ROSE: Have you
worked for him at the National or--
JUDI DENCH: Yes, I have.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: In Hamlet and
in Amy's View.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Oh,
sure.
JUDI DENCH: And on
television in The Cherry Orchard. And in Iris.
CHARLIE ROSE: He never
thought about anybody but you for this. I mean, there was not even a--
JUDI DENCH: I don't know. I
expect--
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: --there might
have been somebody else.
CHARLIE ROSE: I doubt it. I
doubt it. Interesting is that Sony-- John Calley at Sony owned the
property.
JUDI DENCH: I know. That's
when I was--
CHARLIE ROSE: He sold it
to--
JUDI DENCH: --originally
asked to do it, when I was in Amy's View here--
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: --in '99. And I
said yes. And there was no director then. I said, "Yes. How
wonderful to play a heroine, my heroine.''
CHARLIE ROSE: ... to play
your heroine.
JUDI DENCH: Uh-huh. And so
I didn't-- and then I think-- and then John Calley learned that you
couldn't get the money for it. And it was-- there's been a fight for--
for Richard and Charles Wood--
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: --to get the
backing.
CHARLIE ROSE: Brilliantly
done. It is. You know that. But I mean, not just your performance, but
the way it's put together.
JUDI DENCH: The way it's
put together is just spectacular, I think.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. I
mean-- I assume that's why they had such a hard time figuring it out,
and nobody-- and they sold it back because they couldn't figure out how
to do it.
JUDI DENCH: I also think--
CHARLIE ROSE: And then
Richard Eyre comes along and--
JUDI DENCH: Yes--
CHARLIE ROSE: --unlocks the
key.
JUDI DENCH: I know. And I
also think that initially, it was seen as a film about a disease.
CHARLIE ROSE: Rather than a
relationship.
JUDI DENCH: Rather than a
love affair.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Can I
talk about your husband, Michael Williams, for a moment?
JUDI DENCH: Of course you
can.
CHARLIE ROSE: He sent you a
rose every Friday.
JUDI DENCH: He did.
CHARLIE ROSE: What a great
thing.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: And you said
to me, because I mentioned this as we sat down, more people somehow--
it's one of those things that people take note of.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: If you read
the story of Judi Dench, it sort of jumps out.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, it's true.
CHARLIE ROSE: And
everybody's reaction sort of was like mine. "What a great guy.''
JUDI DENCH: You bet.
CHARLIE ROSE: To do that.
JUDI DENCH: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Now,
this was a wonderful relationship.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, it was.
CHARLIE ROSE: He was of the
theater, too.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. We knew
each other nine years before we even thought of looking twice.
CHARLIE ROSE: Is that
right?
JUDI DENCH: It is.
CHARLIE ROSE: You knew each
other nine years--
JUDI DENCH: I was playing
in Romeo and Juliet, Franco Zeffirelli ...
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. Right.
JUDI DENCH: And he was in
Celebration at the Duchess Theater. And we met, and we went on meeting.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: Waving.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: Both with other
people.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.
JUDI DENCH: Not,
fortunately, married to them. And then nine years after that--
CHARLIE ROSE: He says,
"Let's have dinner''?
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Is that what
he did?
JUDI DENCH: Sort of.
CHARLIE ROSE: Sort of? Oh,
well, maybe-- is it better than that?
JUDI DENCH: He could have
...
CHARLIE ROSE: He said,
"Come on over to my place.''
JUDI DENCH: Or did I say,
"Come over to mine''?
CHARLIE ROSE: And you said,
"Come over to my place.'' Or one or the other.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, he was in
one half of the Royal Shakespeare Company, I was in the other. And I was
at Stratford.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: And he came up
to-- having done his cartilage of his knee in. We met at the Dirty Duck
one night.
CHARLIE ROSE: And
everything was--
JUDI DENCH: And I smoked
the whole evening.
CHARLIE ROSE: You did?
JUDI DENCH: I'm a total
non-smoker.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah?
JUDI DENCH: And I smoked
the whole evening.
CHARLIE ROSE: Now, what was
that about?
JUDI DENCH: What was it
about. You tell me.
CHARLIE ROSE: And did you
not know? I mean, did you--
JUDI DENCH: No, I didn't
know.
CHARLIE ROSE: You didn't.
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: Did he?
JUDI DENCH: No, I don't
think so.
CHARLIE ROSE: You don't
think so. So you had to sort of even come to where--
JUDI DENCH: And then I went
to Australia with the company.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah?
JUDI DENCH: And then he
flew out.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah?
JUDI DENCH: To see me,
unexpectedly. I didn't know he was coming.
CHARLIE ROSE: He couldn't
get you out of his mind. You were adults by now, weren't you.
JUDI DENCH: I was what?
CHARLIE ROSE: You were an
adult by now.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. Yes. Yes,
it was good.
CHARLIE ROSE: It was.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: You said once
that the thing that was magical is that you never took each other for
granted.
JUDI DENCH: I think it's an
unwritten law.
CHARLIE ROSE: You can't--
JUDI DENCH: The best--
CHARLIE ROSE: I do, too.
JUDI DENCH: --thing in the
world, just don't-- I think that if you expect that somebody's always
going to be there, I think it's a terrible mistake.
CHARLIE ROSE: And don't let
it become ordinary.
JUDI DENCH: Never. Don't
let it become ordinary. Always surprise.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: But don't ever
expect that the person's going to come back to you because they may well
have met somebody else down the road.
CHARLIE ROSE: You need
company.
JUDI DENCH: I do. I do.
CHARLIE ROSE: Not good at
being alone with yourself?
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: Why is that?
JUDI DENCH: Well, that's
the way the package came.
CHARLIE ROSE: Just-- that's
the genetic make-up. Your parents said--
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Oh, so your
daughter moved in after he died, yes?
JUDI DENCH: Yes. And
grandson.
CHARLIE ROSE: And grandson.
JUDI DENCH: Uh-huh.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah. You
just like people around.
JUDI DENCH: I do like
people around. I mean, I do make every effort to-- to be on my own
sometimes because I think it's good for me.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: But I don't
enjoy it. But of necessity.
CHARLIE ROSE: Do you get
bored, or you just--
JUDI DENCH: I get bored.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: And I can't
settle easily at something, no. I like the idea of somebody coming in
later.
CHARLIE ROSE: Well, you're
obviously very smart and you read a lot, I would assume.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: Do you paint?
JUDI DENCH: I do.
CHARLIE ROSE: You paint?
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: So you've got
all these things to do.
JUDI DENCH: And I sew.
CHARLIE ROSE: That's right,
you do sew.
JUDI DENCH: I do.
CHARLIE ROSE: What do you
mean? Like knit or what?
JUDI DENCH: No, tapestry.
CHARLIE ROSE: Sew.
JUDI DENCH: Rude cushions.
CHARLIE ROSE: Oh, that's
right.
JUDI DENCH: Now you
remember.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, I do.
JUDI DENCH: Funny that.
CHARLIE ROSE: David Hare.
JUDI DENCH: Hare. Yes,
correct.
CHARLIE ROSE: You went and
wrote him?
JUDI DENCH: And he asked
me-- he saw me doing one and asked me to make him a cushion with
something on it that when his mother came to stay she would just say,
``What a charming cushion,'' and not read what was on it. It was a very
complicated-- like a swirl pattern.
CHARLIE ROSE: So his mother
comes in and she looks at it.
JUDI DENCH: She says,
"What a charming cushion.''
CHARLIE ROSE: Period.
Period.
JUDI DENCH: And I know I'm
the winner, then.
CHARLIE ROSE: That's right.
Now you, at the time of grieving were going also back to do Shipping
News. You grieved clearly for a while. This has been so magical for you.
Kevin Spacey was helpful.
JUDI DENCH: He certainly
was. He certainly was. He made me laugh a lot. He became a good friend.
CHARLIE ROSE: And now?
Really?
JUDI DENCH: He's just very,
very good news.
CHARLIE ROSE: That's an
English expression -- he's good news. He's good news on The Shipping
News.
JUDI DENCH: He was.
CHARLIE ROSE: But he was
there and just made you laugh knowing that you were going through a
certain kind of pain.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, but he
never gave me the impression that he was consciously doing that. Not for
a minute. No, not for a minute. I just thought we got on well, which we
did. Because I knew that when I was doing Amy's View here and he was
doing Ice-- was it Long Day's Journey or Iceman?
CHARLIE ROSE: Iceman.
JUDI DENCH: Iceman. I knew,
for instance, that during Act One he had crossed the back of his stage
on his scooter, when they were looked at--
CHARLIE ROSE: So he had
this little thing. He used his little--
JUDI DENCH: Which he taught
me to ride. And so that was--
CHARLIE ROSE: In
Newfoundland?
JUDI DENCH: No, here in New
York, before we came. So that was immediately, I thought, that's my man
who rides a scooter across in the middle of a play is good news.
So-- but I didn't get-- I just thought, you know, I didn't get a
conscious feeling that he was making an effort because I was in that
state of mind at all. And also Gordon--
CHARLIE ROSE: He just made
you laugh.
JUDI DENCH: He made me a
laugh a lot.
CHARLIE ROSE: Shipping
News. Here it is.
JUDI DENCH: Oh.
[excerpt from ``The
Shipping News'']
KEVIN SPACEY: Car crashes?
I can't cover those.
JUDI DENCH: Why not.
KEVIN SPACEY: You know why
not.
JUDI DENCH: We face up to
the things we're afraid of because we can't go around them. Car wrecks
are a fact of life up here. Come winter, driving is totally damn near
impossible. You could write us a book.
KEVIN SPACEY: Look, I
already told you, I'm not a water person.
ACTOR: They dragged it
here.
KEVIN SPACEY: What honey?
ACTOR: The house, they
dragged it here.
KEVIN SPACEY: You must have
had a dream, sweetheart.
JUDI DENCH: Who told you
about that?
CHARLIE ROSE: Kevin --
great actor.
JUDI DENCH: You bet.
CHARLIE ROSE: As good as
you know working today, probably.
JUDI DENCH: Yes.
CHARLIE ROSE: A different
role for him.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. And I
think thrilling because of that.
CHARLIE ROSE: Because he
was willing to risk and to take--
JUDI DENCH: Absolutely. I
think it was quite a challenge.
CHARLIE ROSE: Here's
another clip from Iris. Take a look at this.
[excerpt from ``Iris'']
1st ACTOR: What is the name
of the prime minister?
JUDI DENCH: Me? Are you
asking me?
1st ACTOR: Yes, I am.
JUDI DENCH: I don't know.
Ask John. Surely it doesn't matter.
1st ACTOR: OK, well, no,
not really.
JUDI DENCH: I've got a lot
of ideas but they won't come together. It happens all the time,
forgetting names.
1st ACTOR: Well, take care.
2nd ACTOR: Goodbye, Doctor.
Thank you. Iris?
JUDI DENCH: I'm sure the
country won't go to the dogs. Not knowing the prime minister's name is
not a capital offense.
2nd ACTOR: Absolutely.
JUDI DENCH: I know the
names that matter.
2nd ACTOR: You'll be all
right.
JUDI DENCH: Well, I won't
be if you stop writing. You've got a book to finish. Oh, Tony Blair --
so there.
CHARLIE ROSE: That's a
great scene. Why are you sad?
JUDI DENCH: No, I wasn't.
You know, it's a scene in the film that when you see something you
think, ``I should have said that in a different way.''
CHARLIE ROSE: Did you
really say that then? As you were thinking, did you think you should
have said it in a different way? How would you have said it?
JUDI DENCH: I can't tell
you, but I know that I-- I know there's an alternative way to that.
CHARLIE ROSE: Is this why
you don't watch your films?
JUDI DENCH: It's exactly
why.
CHARLIE ROSE: Exactly.
JUDI DENCH: Because it's,
you know, you just think--
CHARLIE ROSE: You don't
want too much of that because it is too late, my dear.
JUDI DENCH: It's too late.
It's too late, my dear. That's exactly what it is.
CHARLIE ROSE: You're still
thinking about it, aren't you?
JUDI DENCH: No. I've never
seen Chocolat. I might be feeling--
CHARLIE ROSE: You've never
seen Chocolat?
JUDI DENCH: No. I haven't
seen A Room with a View. I told you that before. I still haven't seen
it. I will when time has passed.
CHARLIE ROSE: Well, with A
Room with a View, time has passed.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, I know.
CHARLIE ROSE: Its time is
up.
JUDI DENCH: That's years
ago. That was '80-something.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes, exactly.
We're talking, you know. That's enough time to go watch it and not worry
about what have been.
JUDI DENCH: I know.
CHARLIE ROSE: That was a
different time, a different work, a different--
JUDI DENCH: I've forgotten
now, you see. But this is so recent that I remember things that I wish
that I-- you know, that I had trouble with. And certain things that you
think, ``Oh, I could have-- 'It's like, you know, it's being in a
forest. When you're doing it, you're in the forest. You don't recognize
the trees. You know you're in a forest. You come out and you go up the
hill and you look back and you say, ``Oh, it's made of-- you know,
there's a core of pine or sycamore there. I didn't notice that.'' Too
late.
CHARLIE ROSE: Too late.
That's the great thing about the stage, too.
JUDI DENCH: Oh.
CHARLIE ROSE: The next
night you can fix it.
JUDI DENCH: You can fix it.
I've just done 16 weeks of Royal Family and we fixed it a lot. I mean,
sometimes we fixed it in a worse way from the night before. But
sometimes, odd nights, it went-- it was better.
CHARLIE ROSE: What is it--
what's the great dream now? What's the drive for you? What's the petrol
that-- I mean, what fuels your ambition?
JUDI DENCH: I like working.
I like doing it. I'm lucky to be in a profession that I like so much and
to be employed in it.
CHARLIE ROSE: How lucky are
you?
JUDI DENCH: Very lucky, I
think.
CHARLIE ROSE: To have found
and to be able to at your age, to get up every morning and much of your
life, as much as you've lived, is still ahead of you. I mean, I think
the saddest thing would be to have you life behind you, you know.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, I hope
that's the case.
CHARLIE ROSE: Well, you
know it's the case because you're at the top of your power. You're--
JUDI DENCH: I've got 67
more years. There's really very, very old parts, indeed, for me.
CHARLIE ROSE: You know,
what's interesting -- I mean, I read this too -- when you were young
they weren't giving you parts because they thought you were too young
for the part. I'm think maybe of--
JUDI DENCH: Lady Bracknell.
CHARLIE ROSE: Exactly.
JUDI DENCH: Yes. I just
played that this year. That's going to come out in a few months time.
Now I'm too old for it.
CHARLIE ROSE: You can't do
it anymore.
JUDI DENCH: You can't win,
can you?
CHARLIE ROSE: You always
do-- I mean, even after you went away and left the Royal Shakespeare,
you came back, didn't you? You left to go away and then you--
JUDI DENCH: To Stratford.
CHARLIE ROSE: Right.
JUDI DENCH: Yes, and then
came back again to Stratford. I did.
CHARLIE ROSE: Why did you
do that?
JUDI DENCH: Well, I was
offered a part.
CHARLIE ROSE: That's it?
It's that simple?
JUDI DENCH: Yeah. Yes. It's
entirely that simple.
CHARLIE ROSE: Anybody you
want to work with? Anything you want to do? Any great-- Have you been
looking at a performance, at a Shakespearian part and say, you know, at
some point I'm going to find the perfect direct and the perfect--
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: No?
JUDI DENCH: No. I haven't
looked at any part and thought that. You just have to wait for somebody
to come along and offer me something.
CHARLIE ROSE: At which part
were you more yourself than anything else? Where were you more at one
with a character?
JUDI DENCH: In 44 years?
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes.
JUDI DENCH: I have no idea.
CHARLIE ROSE: How about in
the last five? No, but I'm serious. You don't have one part in which you
said this-- this character is-- I mean, a little bit of it's in Iris.
You ticked off some things in which she was like you but that had to do
with biography.
JUDI DENCH: No, that I was
like her.
CHARLIE ROSE: That was
biography rather than sort of being intricately linked with the soul and
the ambition and the drive and the--
JUDI DENCH: I don't know
having come across that part yet.
CHARLIE ROSE: Really?
JUDI DENCH: Perhaps it's
going to come up next.
CHARLIE ROSE: Does anything
come close to it?
JUDI DENCH: If it did come
up, I wouldn't want to do it.
CHARLIE ROSE: Why?
JUDI DENCH: Well, because,
you know--
CHARLIE ROSE: Playing
yourself.
JUDI DENCH: Yeah. Boring.
CHARLIE ROSE: Boring?
JUDI DENCH: Boring. I do
think-- I do think I wouldn't want to do that. I wouldn't want to do
that at all.
CHARLIE ROSE: Do directors
push you or are you pretty much given the script and they--
JUDI DENCH: You mean, when
I'm doing the film?
CHARLIE ROSE: Yeah.
JUDI DENCH: Oh, no, I
absolutely rely 100 percent on the director.
CHARLIE ROSE: You do?
JUDI DENCH: One hundred
percent.
CHARLIE ROSE: It's not just
what you see on the script?
JUDI DENCH: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: You come to
him for help?
JUDI DENCH: I do. I ask,
yes. I ask all the time questions, like ``Are we telling a story?''
CHARLIE ROSE: You ask lots
of questions, don't you?
JUDI DENCH: I do.
CHARLIE ROSE: You do.
That's right. What do you want to know? I don't want to know.
